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on this episode of skeptic Oh Alex talks

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with religion and mythology scholar

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Acharya s on one hand we have these

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traditions and these myths and myth

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making but on the other hand we have the

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same characters that we see on the

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landscape today that say hey wait a

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minute maybe I can make a buck out of

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this maybe I can control things maybe I

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can make my group superior and win out

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over the other group and maybe I can use

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these myths to do it and I think unless

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we thoroughly understand that and at the

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same time thoroughly understand or

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appreciate the possibility that there is

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some genuine non-biological robot

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spiritual experience until all that's on

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the table then we can't really separate

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it out either

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so this mythos is amore mythos is

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position that that I am discussing which

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looks at some supernatural beings and

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antiquity as mythical figures not real

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people who landed on planet earth and

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did a bunch of magic tricks but this is

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a really a neutral position because you

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don't have to believe in it and you

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don't have to dismiss it you don't have

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to be a theist or an atheist you can be

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either one you can be a theist or an

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atheist to enjoy this information all

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I'm doing is collecting religious and

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mythological ideas from a far back as we

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can tell and putting them together and

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showing their influences on our thinking

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welcome to skeptic Oh where we explore

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controversial science with leading

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researchers thinkers and their critics

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I'm your host Alex Karras and on this

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episode of skeptic oh we return to the

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topic of religion which is probably fair

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since I've been pretty hard on the

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atheists lately

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and since I have been so hard on the

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atheists I think it ought to come clean

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with the fact that the atheist position

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that is the consciousness is an illusion

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you are a biological robot nonsense

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really is at the end of the day a

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reactionary position I mean it is born

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out of this religious craziness that the

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atheists feel like they need to push

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against so hard so I think it's good in

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this show that we're going to again dive

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in and try and lay bare the whole topic

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of religion at the end of the day

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through all the skeptic Oh shows that

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I've done and the many interviews I've

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done with Christian folks and a couple

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of Buddhist folks and all the rest I

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come away with the conclusion that all

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religions are part divine spark in part

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Scientology hucksterism and if you leave

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either one of those out it's hard to get

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your arms around what's going on not to

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suggest that I have my arms around

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what's going on but I think it's

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impossible if you don't acknowledge

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number one the divine spark which is the

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atheist position and that takes you down

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this path where you wind up exactly

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where I said the only place you can wind

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up down that path is consciousness is an

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illusion you are a biological robot

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because if you acknowledge anything else

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other than biological robot then you

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have to leave open the possibility of

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divine spark because it's so widely

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reported across so many cultures and

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across all time if you open up that door

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I think you have to walk through it of

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course on the other side and this is

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what we're going to explore today in

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this interview with acharya s i think

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it's vital that we really examine

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the hucksterism the myth-making that is

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a natural part of any religion and I say

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it's a natural part because it does seem

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to me that we as human beings have this

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need to one kind of engage in this

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cultish behavior and number two try and

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take advantage of the fact that people

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like to engage in this cultish behavior

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so when we see the goofiness of

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Mormonism or the craziness of

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Scientology it really shouldn't be

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surprising but what probably is

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surprising is when we look back and we

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turn back history and we go all the way

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back and this show we're going to talk a

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lot about the early first century early

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Christian history we find the exact same

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kind of pattern being repeated and I

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think if we're fair and open-minded then

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we have to start asking the hard

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question how much of the religions that

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we know today that we accept that we

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dance around carefully not to offend

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anyone how much of those religions when

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we really strip away and look at them

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honestly are probably much more

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traceable to the Scientology hucksterism

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kind of camp than the divine spark so

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that's what I'm interested in exploring

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and I think I found a great guest to do

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it with and that would be Acharya s

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here's the interview today we welcome

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Acharya s - skeptic Oh Acharya whose

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real name is DM Murdock is a first-rate

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biblical scholar and expert in religious

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studies and mythology and also the

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author of numerous books including the

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Christ conspiracy who is Jesus and sons

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of God she also runs a website that is

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absolutely chock-full of high-quality

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articles and research on the topics

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we're going to talk about today that

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website is at truth be known com Acharya

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it's great to have you on skeptic oh

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thanks so much for joining me

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well it's nice to be here thanks for

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inviting me I also have a blog at

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freethought Nation calm

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and in fact you can search across my

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websites cuz I has another one stellar

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house publishing calm but if you can you

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can search across all my websites and a

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forum people are invited to ask

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questions of me in the forum as well

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great you know I'm gonna look forward to

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joining your forum after I publish this

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because I think it's going to be

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interesting hopefully we'll we'll touch

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on some things that aren't entirely

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consistent with everything you've talked

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about before and maybe get some

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interesting dialogue going on there I

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say that because one of the reasons that

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I was especially grateful for you

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accepting this invitation is because we

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did have a chance to talk a little bit

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about my skepticism of some of the new

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atheism dogma when it comes to science

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we were able in our dialogue email

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exchange beforehand to really separate

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that and say from my position Atari and

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I'm very open-minded to much of what

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you've researched appreciative of what

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of much of what you've researched and

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and that is separating out mythology

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religious dogma from history because as

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we talked about I think it's one thing

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to say like I have come to understand

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through my research that it is possible

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perhaps that people might be having

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genuine spiritual experiences and that's

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my belief that doesn't have to be your

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belief and separate that out from the

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fact that we also have to observe and

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deal with the fact that people seem to

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have this tendency to do this cultish

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myth making crazy stuff and it's going

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on in our contemporary society and it

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goes on in just about every part of

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history we can look at so I think it's

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very worthwhile to do the kind of work

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that you've done to look back and try

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and sort through this history into the

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best we can figure out where the data

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really points us in terms of what's

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historically accurate and what isn't if

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you know what I mean I do I think we're

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on a similar page because I've tried to

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clarify that my work is not atheistic

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say in that I'm just trying to debunk

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the concept of god or gods that's a

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whole different field that other people

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are engaged in like you know the Dawkins

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and Hitchens Harris group and they like

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to debate the existence of God

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whereas I don't call myself a theist or

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an atheist would prefer not to have a

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label obviously and and I don't

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disbelieve or believe I just think what

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I consider to be appropriate thoughts in

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any given moment and I'd like to give

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this example when something horrible

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happens to a small child it I think it's

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appropriate to ask yourself you don't

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have to say that out loud but in your

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own mind to say you know where is a good

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God in all this supposed to be in charge

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of everything allowing this child to die

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horribly

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I think that's an entirely appropriate

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thought to have and you can even say it

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out loud as far as I'm concerned so

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that's an atheistic type thought and

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then but then if you want to go up onto

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a mountain and and look over of that

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gorgeous valley have the sun shining

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down on you and you feel like having

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some kind of cosmic communion and want

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to call that experience with God I think

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that's also appropriate and entirely up

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to the individual so I'm not pushing

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here some kind of a Dogma or doctrine of

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what you must believe in that's like to

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say that the thoughts that are in your

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own mind are your own business you

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there's none of my business to be inside

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your brain to tell you what to think at

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any given moment that's what religions

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try to do a lot of mind-control right

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they threaten you with hell and promise

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you heaven if you think a certain way

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and this concept of mind control is

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taken even great to a greater extent by

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claiming that there was a giant being

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called God who's separate and apart from

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humanity but I'm Nishant so he's really

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inside your head and he's even certain

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cults that say that you're connected in

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a like a network to this this giant

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being but not in a good way not in a

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spiritual experience more in an

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enslaving way you're just a you know

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manipulated puppet according to that

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that meant

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so but there is this there are spiritual

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experiences that do have profound effect

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on people and what could be long-lasting

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it can change someone completely and

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dramatically and I don't have any

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problem with those concepts of those

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experiences I've experienced mystical

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things in my past intentionally to see

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what a particular religion sect or cult

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is all about a doctrine a Dogma whatever

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I've actually done a lot of meditation

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and I've gone to groups where I've done

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like out of out-of-body work all this

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kind of to see what mankind's extremely

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ancient religious traditions have meant

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to humanity you can't really understand

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what it's understand the religious mind

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in order to analyze it without having

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gone through these experiences I was a

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born-again Christian and that was a

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sincere moment that you know actually

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led me to where I am now which brings me

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back to what you were trying to

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differentiate between which is this

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notion of spirituality being a private

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domain of an individual and what has

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actually happened in the third dimension

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in written physical reality these are

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separate issues well I don't know that

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I'd quite go there since you said that

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that's what I said because I totally

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agree with you in terms of someone's

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private thoughts are their own business

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they're no one's business and but I

274
00:11:59,280 --> 00:11:56,949
think that the the New Atheists

275
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have a point here although the point

276
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cuts both ways

277
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and that's that to the extent that our

278
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private beliefs work their way into our

279
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stated beliefs our stated values in how

280
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we exercise those beliefs and values in

281
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terms of laws we create and how we want

282
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to move society in one direction or

283
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another it is our business so I'm sure I

284
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am interested as you are although I

285
00:12:25,620 --> 00:12:23,529
think we might have different

286
00:12:30,449 --> 00:12:25,630
conclusions about that but probably not

287
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that different how we conceptualize some

288
00:12:35,429 --> 00:12:32,889
of this information that we're going to

289
00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:35,439
talk about about history and what that

290
00:12:39,270 --> 00:12:38,050
means for us so you know III think

291
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there's kind of

292
00:12:44,940 --> 00:12:42,070
different discussions we can have there

293
00:12:50,250 --> 00:12:44,950
but where I really want to get

294
00:12:52,470 --> 00:12:50,260
eventually is I want to hit the middle

295
00:12:55,650 --> 00:12:52,480
ground because I think what has happened

296
00:12:58,050 --> 00:12:55,660
in this debate this culture war debate

297
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over science versus religion whether we

298
00:13:01,950 --> 00:12:59,620
wanted the debate to go this way or not

299
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it's become polarized like all these

300
00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:04,480
debates do and I think we have you know

301
00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:06,610
these fundamentalist Christians

302
00:13:11,370 --> 00:13:08,770
fundamentals fundamentalist Muslims

303
00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:11,380
fundamentalist Jewish people take your

304
00:13:16,830 --> 00:13:13,690
pick and they're on one side and they're

305
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:16,840
throwing out Bible verses or you know

306
00:13:20,850 --> 00:13:18,610
sacred texts or they're talking about

307
00:13:23,460 --> 00:13:20,860
Armageddon or whatever crazy stuff they

308
00:13:25,650 --> 00:13:23,470
are and the most most people are looking

309
00:13:28,350 --> 00:13:25,660
at and going hey you know that that's

310
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:28,360
not me I can't buy into that right on

311
00:13:32,580 --> 00:13:30,490
the other hand and I think I think

312
00:13:35,460 --> 00:13:32,590
sometimes the Atheist community doesn't

313
00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:35,470
realize that that sometimes the atheists

314
00:13:39,630 --> 00:13:37,810
come across as wacky you know when

315
00:13:41,790 --> 00:13:39,640
they're telling us that we're biological

316
00:13:44,100 --> 00:13:41,800
robots and life is meaningless and you

317
00:13:45,780 --> 00:13:44,110
have no free will and the majority of

318
00:13:49,110 --> 00:13:45,790
people are sitting there and going I

319
00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:49,120
know that's bull too you know and

320
00:13:55,980 --> 00:13:52,000
they're trying to sort out right thing

321
00:13:59,520 --> 00:13:55,990
between these you extremist positions

322
00:14:02,250 --> 00:13:59,530
and what I see you doing is in a very

323
00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:02,260
sober scholarly way going back and

324
00:14:07,260 --> 00:14:04,810
saying okay I know my position isn't

325
00:14:10,350 --> 00:14:07,270
very popular here and saying I'm going

326
00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:10,360
to openly consider the possibility that

327
00:14:16,590 --> 00:14:13,450
Jesus was a myth and that it looks more

328
00:14:18,630 --> 00:14:16,600
like other myths of the time I know that

329
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:18,640
isn't popular but I'm gonna go and sort

330
00:14:24,660 --> 00:14:21,370
through the best historical data and try

331
00:14:27,300 --> 00:14:24,670
and lay that bear you know that's the

332
00:14:30,060 --> 00:14:27,310
kind of stuff I think more people in the

333
00:14:32,130 --> 00:14:30,070
middle need to open themselves up to and

334
00:14:33,420 --> 00:14:32,140
say hey I'm gonna take that in I don't

335
00:14:35,220 --> 00:14:33,430
know exactly what I'm gonna do with it

336
00:14:38,490 --> 00:14:35,230
but I'm just gonna kind of take it in

337
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:38,500
and I'm gonna taken in not saying that

338
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:40,930
that has to lead me towards atheism or

339
00:14:44,310 --> 00:14:42,610
that I have to do this or that I'm just

340
00:14:46,650 --> 00:14:44,320
gonna take it in and see what happens

341
00:14:49,170 --> 00:14:46,660
right yeah that's what I'm trying to

342
00:14:50,699 --> 00:14:49,180
distinguish that's what I meant when I

343
00:14:52,519 --> 00:14:50,709
say what's happening in the privacy of

344
00:14:54,199 --> 00:14:52,529
your own mind of course I always

345
00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:54,209
qualify that by saying it's not my

346
00:14:59,329 --> 00:14:56,370
business until it spills out delete

347
00:15:01,999 --> 00:14:59,339
eriously on to others so you know if you

348
00:15:04,790 --> 00:15:02,009
can sit there and think of some glorious

349
00:15:06,590 --> 00:15:04,800
concept in your brain but if you can

350
00:15:09,610 --> 00:15:06,600
keep it there without insisting and

351
00:15:12,590 --> 00:15:09,620
imposing it on the rest of us through

352
00:15:15,199 --> 00:15:12,600
all kinds of means that we've seen and

353
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:15,209
this is part of my work is separating

354
00:15:22,269 --> 00:15:17,850
the pathological chaff from the wheat of

355
00:15:25,009 --> 00:15:22,279
man man's religious traditions or

356
00:15:27,829 --> 00:15:25,019
another metaphor elix uses the trimming

357
00:15:29,449 --> 00:15:27,839
of man's religious tree which has deep

358
00:15:31,460 --> 00:15:29,459
roots going back thousands of years but

359
00:15:33,410 --> 00:15:31,470
there's these pathological dead ends

360
00:15:36,079 --> 00:15:33,420
that need to be cut away for the for it

361
00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:36,089
to really blossom thoroughly and so

362
00:15:38,989 --> 00:15:37,410
that's basically what I'm doing I'm not

363
00:15:41,509 --> 00:15:38,999
telling people what to believe or what

364
00:15:43,699 --> 00:15:41,519
to disbelieve I'm analyzing what has

365
00:15:45,319 --> 00:15:43,709
really happened on earth and if it

366
00:15:47,929 --> 00:15:45,329
didn't happen on earth what does it mean

367
00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:47,939
because we know if we look back at the

368
00:15:53,329 --> 00:15:50,639
world's religions around the globe

369
00:15:55,819 --> 00:15:53,339
they're now considered mythology by many

370
00:15:57,889 --> 00:15:55,829
people because of the teachings of

371
00:16:00,259 --> 00:15:57,899
Christianity for example or Islam or

372
00:16:05,540 --> 00:16:00,269
Judaism these three monotheistic

373
00:16:07,340 --> 00:16:05,550
Abrahamic cults Asst expressions they're

374
00:16:10,809 --> 00:16:07,350
telling I said everything else is a myth

375
00:16:15,379 --> 00:16:10,819
so you're looking at the cultures of

376
00:16:18,530 --> 00:16:15,389
Rome Greece your Central America Asia of

377
00:16:21,259 --> 00:16:18,540
course India all these myths lots of

378
00:16:24,470 --> 00:16:21,269
parts of Africa they're there all the

379
00:16:27,829 --> 00:16:24,480
religions are all myths okay so that's

380
00:16:31,519 --> 00:16:27,839
what these monotheistic cults are trying

381
00:16:33,889 --> 00:16:31,529
to tell us of course so we want to look

382
00:16:36,110 --> 00:16:33,899
back at those myths and figure out what

383
00:16:39,939 --> 00:16:36,120
do they mean and if since their myths

384
00:16:43,369 --> 00:16:39,949
why are the supernatural tales of

385
00:16:46,490 --> 00:16:43,379
Christianity Judaism and Islam not myths

386
00:16:48,290 --> 00:16:46,500
and so I'm looking at those other

387
00:16:51,199 --> 00:16:48,300
supernatural tales and I'm saying you

388
00:16:53,569 --> 00:16:51,209
know what these are myths and they're

389
00:16:56,299 --> 00:16:53,579
traceable to the pre-christian pre

390
00:16:58,669 --> 00:16:56,309
Judaic pre-islamic world and what do

391
00:17:01,629 --> 00:16:58,679
they mean why were they try were they

392
00:17:03,740 --> 00:17:01,639
told why were they created what do these

393
00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:03,750
personifications represent we have

394
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:06,089
personifications of clearly

395
00:17:10,970 --> 00:17:08,730
natural beings that in my mind can be

396
00:17:12,529 --> 00:17:10,980
demonstrated to be mythological let me

397
00:17:14,449 --> 00:17:12,539
stop you there because you've kind of

398
00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:14,459
wandered into this topic that I think is

399
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:16,880
an important one and I think it also

400
00:17:23,059 --> 00:17:19,890
comes up again and again in your work in

401
00:17:25,970 --> 00:17:23,069
I think a very convincing an important

402
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:25,980
way and that's to maybe restate what you

403
00:17:33,500 --> 00:17:29,610
just did is that one of the ways to test

404
00:17:36,230 --> 00:17:33,510
the claim that gets made by folks who

405
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:36,240
are a lot of times are pretty secular

406
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:38,250
folks you know who are just kind of

407
00:17:43,399 --> 00:17:41,010
going through life but are trying to fit

408
00:17:45,110 --> 00:17:43,409
their worldview in with the common

409
00:17:47,750 --> 00:17:45,120
culture and they'll say things like you

410
00:17:49,580 --> 00:17:47,760
know Christianity has done a lot of good

411
00:17:52,159 --> 00:17:49,590
through the age or sometimes what you'll

412
00:17:55,519 --> 00:17:52,169
hear is that even among secular people

413
00:17:59,210 --> 00:17:55,529
that Jesus is a model of a good teacher

414
00:18:02,149 --> 00:17:59,220
we may not accept the Bible that it's

415
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:02,159
inerrant that it's perfect but we can

416
00:18:08,539 --> 00:18:05,970
accept Jesus and that he was a model for

417
00:18:11,060 --> 00:18:08,549
kind of how we should be and I think

418
00:18:13,220 --> 00:18:11,070
what your work does you kind of go right

419
00:18:15,409 --> 00:18:13,230
to the heart of some of those claims

420
00:18:18,289 --> 00:18:15,419
like you just talked about one of the

421
00:18:21,230 --> 00:18:18,299
claims that kind of slips in there a lot

422
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:21,240
of times is this idea that Christianity

423
00:18:27,830 --> 00:18:26,250
is somehow special somehow unique that

424
00:18:30,019 --> 00:18:27,840
this moment and you'll hear Christians

425
00:18:32,389 --> 00:18:30,029
say that that this moment in time was

426
00:18:34,820 --> 00:18:32,399
really special and what happened during

427
00:18:36,889 --> 00:18:34,830
Jesus's life never happened before in

428
00:18:40,010 --> 00:18:36,899
history and I think you have some really

429
00:18:42,169 --> 00:18:40,020
strong evidence that just directly

430
00:18:43,669 --> 00:18:42,179
refutes that just kind of blows that out

431
00:18:45,740 --> 00:18:43,679
of the water and I think that's a really

432
00:18:47,690 --> 00:18:45,750
important point and I think part of that

433
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:47,700
is what you're talking about with the

434
00:18:52,519 --> 00:18:50,490
pre-christian cross but I think part of

435
00:18:53,870 --> 00:18:52,529
it is also what you just talked about

436
00:18:56,830 --> 00:18:53,880
and I hope you can go into it and more

437
00:19:00,440 --> 00:18:56,840
depth is that when you really dig into

438
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:00,450
Christian doctrine we see patterns that

439
00:19:04,010 --> 00:19:02,490
are being repeated over and over again

440
00:19:05,930 --> 00:19:04,020
and of course we can say the same thing

441
00:19:08,630 --> 00:19:05,940
about Islam we can say that say the same

442
00:19:09,860 --> 00:19:08,640
thing about Judaism it's not just that

443
00:19:11,870 --> 00:19:09,870
we're picking on the Christians but

444
00:19:14,779 --> 00:19:11,880
let's pick on the Christian since it's

445
00:19:17,950 --> 00:19:14,789
such a dominant force in our culture so

446
00:19:19,910 --> 00:19:17,960
you want to pick up on that thread sure

447
00:19:23,810 --> 00:19:19,920
well first of all and

448
00:19:27,530 --> 00:19:23,820
really pick on people that's my word

449
00:19:28,910 --> 00:19:27,540
okay okay no it's IDO I have to make

450
00:19:31,610 --> 00:19:28,920
this clarification because when I

451
00:19:34,100 --> 00:19:31,620
critique Islam invariably is so middles

452
00:19:36,289 --> 00:19:34,110
a bashing Muslims and that is just

453
00:19:38,419 --> 00:19:36,299
completely fallacious if we are

454
00:19:40,940 --> 00:19:38,429
criticizing Christianity are we bashing

455
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:40,950
Christians no in fact we're criticizing

456
00:19:45,860 --> 00:19:43,250
we're looking at we're analyzing an

457
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:45,870
ideology we're not abusing the people

458
00:19:49,610 --> 00:19:48,090
who follow it unless of course they're

459
00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:49,620
behaving badly and then we can say

460
00:19:54,370 --> 00:19:51,510
something about that individually as an

461
00:19:57,650 --> 00:19:54,380
individual issue but to analyze an

462
00:20:00,799 --> 00:19:57,660
ideology and and say and see its flaws

463
00:20:03,230 --> 00:20:00,809
is important it's not picking on someone

464
00:20:06,620 --> 00:20:03,240
or bashing or abusing it's important

465
00:20:09,740 --> 00:20:06,630
it's important because the blind

466
00:20:12,590 --> 00:20:09,750
following of that ideology in this case

467
00:20:15,799 --> 00:20:12,600
Christianity has caused immense

468
00:20:17,180 --> 00:20:15,809
suffering so when we say Christianity

469
00:20:20,049 --> 00:20:17,190
has brought this and that and this and

470
00:20:24,110 --> 00:20:20,059
that you might be able to find a few

471
00:20:26,150 --> 00:20:24,120
seeds in the bag of dog poo but you

472
00:20:28,250 --> 00:20:26,160
might as well just go buy a big bag of

473
00:20:30,650 --> 00:20:28,260
seeds instead of trying to pick through

474
00:20:32,810 --> 00:20:30,660
the other we need something new and

475
00:20:35,030 --> 00:20:32,820
fresh and different yeah yeah maybe but

476
00:20:37,730 --> 00:20:35,040
that's a it's the usual sidetrack

477
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:37,740
throwing mud across the street at each

478
00:20:40,730 --> 00:20:39,210
other kind of thing I've been in that

479
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:40,740
debate I know you've been in that debate

480
00:20:45,620 --> 00:20:43,530
rather than saying okay let's look at

481
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:45,630
this claim that Christianity is

482
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:47,370
something special in history and that it

483
00:20:52,130 --> 00:20:49,890
happened that this part of history was

484
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:52,140
never repeated sure I've been picking

485
00:20:56,210 --> 00:20:53,970
apart the Gospel story and its various

486
00:20:59,000 --> 00:20:56,220
components for decades now and I've

487
00:21:02,539 --> 00:20:59,010
pretty much taken every element of it

488
00:21:04,010 --> 00:21:02,549
and shown the vast majority of it anyway

489
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:04,020
you know there may be a few details here

490
00:21:07,460 --> 00:21:05,610
and there that we're required to weave

491
00:21:10,909 --> 00:21:07,470
the story together but I've shown that

492
00:21:13,820 --> 00:21:10,919
basically what the writers of the story

493
00:21:15,470 --> 00:21:13,830
have done has taken numerous elements

494
00:21:18,770 --> 00:21:15,480
from pre-christian religion and

495
00:21:22,730 --> 00:21:18,780
mythology from Greece Italy of course

496
00:21:25,430 --> 00:21:22,740
the Romans Egypt and other parts India

497
00:21:26,930 --> 00:21:25,440
even other parts of the known world at

498
00:21:30,169 --> 00:21:26,940
the time the Mediterranean which had a

499
00:21:32,580 --> 00:21:30,179
very large amount of cultural exchange

500
00:21:35,340 --> 00:21:32,590
going on for thousands of years

501
00:21:37,169 --> 00:21:35,350
and in fact one of the major ways of

502
00:21:39,779 --> 00:21:37,179
disseminating religious ideas was

503
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:39,789
through the wine trade and that becomes

504
00:21:45,149 --> 00:21:42,250
a really huge factor in this that's a

505
00:21:47,669 --> 00:21:45,159
story for another subject but those wine

506
00:21:49,470 --> 00:21:47,679
elements Jesus's blood as the blood of

507
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:49,480
the grape in the communion we're

508
00:21:56,519 --> 00:21:52,450
drinking wine is is his blood and so

509
00:21:58,799 --> 00:21:56,529
forth all of that wine emphasis is

510
00:22:01,200 --> 00:21:58,809
traceable to the Dionysian cult which

511
00:22:03,630 --> 00:22:01,210
should not surprise us if anybody knows

512
00:22:06,570 --> 00:22:03,640
anything about Dionysus in fact it's

513
00:22:08,639 --> 00:22:06,580
practically lifted right out of Dionysus

514
00:22:10,740 --> 00:22:08,649
worship that would be one aspect of

515
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:10,750
looking at the elements of the Gospel

516
00:22:15,690 --> 00:22:12,570
story and finding their precedent in

517
00:22:18,450 --> 00:22:15,700
pre-christian mythology one of the

518
00:22:19,950 --> 00:22:18,460
reasons I like to do this also is part

519
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:19,960
of this trimming of pathological

520
00:22:25,919 --> 00:22:21,970
branches on the world's great religious

521
00:22:29,340 --> 00:22:25,929
tree is that these earlier renditions

522
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:29,350
actually had sensible reason for a lot

523
00:22:36,350 --> 00:22:32,890
of these mythical motifs and their

524
00:22:39,860 --> 00:22:36,360
culture has been basically usurped

525
00:22:42,510 --> 00:22:39,870
dominated destroyed had its myths and

526
00:22:45,389 --> 00:22:42,520
religious traditions ripped off and

527
00:22:48,539 --> 00:22:45,399
repackaged and many people are

528
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:48,549
completely oblivious to ancient religion

529
00:22:53,519 --> 00:22:51,610
and mythology because of the bias and

530
00:22:55,019 --> 00:22:53,529
bigotry of Christianity if we're going

531
00:22:56,669 --> 00:22:55,029
to speak about that give us some

532
00:22:58,560 --> 00:22:56,679
examples that people could really wrap

533
00:23:00,060 --> 00:22:58,570
their arms around well yeah I just I was

534
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:00,070
talking about the wine the business

535
00:23:03,930 --> 00:23:01,690
about wine because wine of course was

536
00:23:06,299 --> 00:23:03,940
the blood of Dionysus before it became

537
00:23:08,519 --> 00:23:06,309
the blood of Jesus you know so that's

538
00:23:10,470 --> 00:23:08,529
it's a pretty important main just the

539
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:10,480
main element the blood of Christ is not

540
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:12,850
original to the Christianity then we

541
00:23:18,870 --> 00:23:15,130
have the pre-christian God on the cross

542
00:23:21,289 --> 00:23:18,880
and this long study I've done about 35

543
00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:21,299
pages or something like 40 pages of

544
00:23:25,590 --> 00:23:24,130
figures in cruciform meaning that

545
00:23:28,289 --> 00:23:25,600
they're either hung on a cross or in

546
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:28,299
cross shape and in between two thieves

547
00:23:35,850 --> 00:23:31,690
in fact this is a solar symbol there are

548
00:23:39,810 --> 00:23:35,860
many impressions of a divine figure in

549
00:23:42,529 --> 00:23:39,820
the center between two other elements -

550
00:23:44,410 --> 00:23:42,539
they generally are humans or

551
00:23:47,140 --> 00:23:44,420
anthropomorphised

552
00:23:50,980 --> 00:23:47,150
and so that there's this trio of images

553
00:23:52,660 --> 00:23:50,990
and that is a solar symbol the image in

554
00:23:55,300 --> 00:23:52,670
the center the cross in the middle is

555
00:23:57,670 --> 00:23:55,310
the Sun in its totality and then on

556
00:23:59,500 --> 00:23:57,680
either side is the Sun in the morning

557
00:24:02,260 --> 00:23:59,510
and the Sun in the evening also

558
00:24:04,090 --> 00:24:02,270
interpreted as the Sun as it goes

559
00:24:06,010 --> 00:24:04,100
towards the vernal equinox the Sun as it

560
00:24:07,180 --> 00:24:06,020
goes towards the or I'm sorry the winter

561
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:07,190
solstice and the summer solstice it

562
00:24:11,260 --> 00:24:08,570
could also be the equinoxes but it's a

563
00:24:13,540 --> 00:24:11,270
very solar symbol this cross with two

564
00:24:15,340 --> 00:24:13,550
crosses on either side you can find this

565
00:24:17,230 --> 00:24:15,350
going back thousands of years in some

566
00:24:19,570 --> 00:24:17,240
form or another and in your book you

567
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:19,580
actually have reproduced photographs of

568
00:24:25,180 --> 00:24:22,970
have relics and and and what is the

569
00:24:27,300 --> 00:24:25,190
evidence that we have of that evidence

570
00:24:29,770 --> 00:24:27,310
that you present there yeah I have both

571
00:24:31,630 --> 00:24:29,780
photographs and line drawings of

572
00:24:33,660 --> 00:24:31,640
artifacts I have a lot of them in here

573
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:33,670
showing different cross shapes from

574
00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:36,530
before the Common Era or into the Common

575
00:24:39,340 --> 00:24:37,760
Era but having nothing to do with

576
00:24:41,020 --> 00:24:39,350
Christianity that's one thing people

577
00:24:42,460 --> 00:24:41,030
must understand that when we say the

578
00:24:44,110 --> 00:24:42,470
turn of the Common Era which is people

579
00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:44,120
that other people call Christian era

580
00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:48,080
which would be the BC BCE ad c e

581
00:24:56,020 --> 00:24:52,370
timeline just because something is after

582
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:56,030
that artificially-created timeline does

583
00:24:59,440 --> 00:24:57,410
not mean that it's automatically

584
00:25:01,660 --> 00:24:59,450
influenced by Christianity there are

585
00:25:03,250 --> 00:25:01,670
still places in the world today 2,000

586
00:25:04,390 --> 00:25:03,260
years later that have never heard of

587
00:25:06,130 --> 00:25:04,400
Christianity this is like a hundred

588
00:25:07,930 --> 00:25:06,140
uncle'd you note untouched tribes

589
00:25:09,970 --> 00:25:07,940
uncontacted drives around the world

590
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:09,980
they've never heard Christianity they

591
00:25:14,290 --> 00:25:12,050
are living in pre-christian times then

592
00:25:16,270 --> 00:25:14,300
so just because something came after

593
00:25:18,870 --> 00:25:16,280
that dividing line does not mean that it

594
00:25:22,150 --> 00:25:18,880
was influenced by Christianity we have

595
00:25:25,300 --> 00:25:22,160
crucifixes that are a post common era

596
00:25:28,330 --> 00:25:25,310
and they're clearly not influenced by

597
00:25:30,190 --> 00:25:28,340
Christianity so this is not and then but

598
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:30,200
we have also all these other images of

599
00:25:36,220 --> 00:25:33,890
gods and and heroes or other sacred

600
00:25:39,610 --> 00:25:36,230
figures or legends or whatever in

601
00:25:43,870 --> 00:25:39,620
cruciform or hanging on a cross using

602
00:25:46,420 --> 00:25:43,880
the same words as Christ's crucifixion

603
00:25:49,330 --> 00:25:46,430
the same Greek words I have a lot of

604
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:49,340
analysis in original languages in my

605
00:25:55,710 --> 00:25:52,730
work because I I read a dozen or more

606
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:55,720
languages so that's an important aspect

607
00:25:59,080 --> 00:25:56,930
that

608
00:26:01,420 --> 00:25:59,090
you can't get in a lot of other other

609
00:26:03,730 --> 00:26:01,430
writings on these subjects you know you

610
00:26:05,500 --> 00:26:03,740
also make a point related to this that I

611
00:26:07,690 --> 00:26:05,510
was hoping you could kind of expound on

612
00:26:10,660 --> 00:26:07,700
a little bit and that's that even very

613
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:10,670
early on first century if you will

614
00:26:16,510 --> 00:26:13,250
there's this myth making going on and

615
00:26:18,670 --> 00:26:16,520
some of the other religious groups are

616
00:26:20,860 --> 00:26:18,680
kind of complaining to the Christians

617
00:26:22,780 --> 00:26:20,870
and the Christians are dialoguing back

618
00:26:25,660 --> 00:26:22,790
with them and it kind of creates an

619
00:26:27,820 --> 00:26:25,670
interesting kind of a window into how

620
00:26:29,140 --> 00:26:27,830
this whole process is happening do you

621
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:29,150
want to talk about that a little bit

622
00:26:33,670 --> 00:26:30,770
right I think you think you've Justin

623
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:33,680
Martyr when he is addressing the

624
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:36,410
polemics against Christianity that would

625
00:26:39,190 --> 00:26:37,850
be in the second century when

626
00:26:42,430 --> 00:26:39,200
Christianity really starts to become

627
00:26:46,300 --> 00:26:42,440
known to the outside world so to speak

628
00:26:50,350 --> 00:26:46,310
and Justin Martyr was a early church

629
00:26:53,620 --> 00:26:50,360
father around 150 who had to address

630
00:26:57,820 --> 00:26:53,630
some of the complaints of his

631
00:27:00,430 --> 00:26:57,830
unbelieving friends and in his first

632
00:27:02,860 --> 00:27:00,440
apology he has a section chapter one

633
00:27:06,340 --> 00:27:02,870
called the analogies to the history of

634
00:27:08,500 --> 00:27:06,350
Christ he really just admits against

635
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:08,510
interest left and right talking about

636
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:12,010
how Jesus's death and resurrection and

637
00:27:16,900 --> 00:27:14,090
virgin birth and so forth

638
00:27:20,470 --> 00:27:16,910
he is expounding nothing different from

639
00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:20,480
what the pagans believed regarding those

640
00:27:25,330 --> 00:27:23,120
whom they esteemed sons of Jupiter I'm

641
00:27:27,910 --> 00:27:25,340
no worse than you guys I mean that's the

642
00:27:30,670 --> 00:27:27,920
defense yeah it is he's basically saying

643
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:30,680
that he's saying we propound nothing

644
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:33,170
different from the pagan belief systems

645
00:27:38,410 --> 00:27:36,410
so why are you making fun of me and you

646
00:27:39,580 --> 00:27:38,420
do find this throughout the first or the

647
00:27:41,710 --> 00:27:39,590
second rather the second and third

648
00:27:43,510 --> 00:27:41,720
centuries where there the Christian

649
00:27:45,730 --> 00:27:43,520
defenders are constantly admitting that

650
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:45,740
their ridiculous beliefs are no more

651
00:27:50,380 --> 00:27:47,330
ridiculous than the ridiculous beliefs

652
00:27:53,110 --> 00:27:50,390
are the pagans and so it's kind of like

653
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:53,120
you know a battle between people who

654
00:27:58,450 --> 00:27:54,650
like Superman and people who like

655
00:28:01,330 --> 00:27:58,460
spider-man and they're having this big

656
00:28:03,940 --> 00:28:01,340
battle of course the people who like the

657
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:03,950
the judeo-christian Superman are the

658
00:28:07,900 --> 00:28:05,570
ones who won out and that's a whole

659
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:07,910
other story but I think this is really

660
00:28:10,159 --> 00:28:09,890
one of to me this is one of the most

661
00:28:13,729 --> 00:28:10,169
come

662
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:13,739
pelling parts of your work is that no

663
00:28:17,149 --> 00:28:15,450
matter how you come out and sort

664
00:28:20,509 --> 00:28:17,159
everything out at the at the very end

665
00:28:23,269 --> 00:28:20,519
one of the things you clearly establish

666
00:28:26,989 --> 00:28:23,279
is this idea we have of quote unquote

667
00:28:28,849 --> 00:28:26,999
the early Christians is dramatic history

668
00:28:31,009 --> 00:28:28,859
tells us that it's dramatically

669
00:28:34,099 --> 00:28:31,019
different than what we need to believe

670
00:28:35,779 --> 00:28:34,109
in it you know for example you touch

671
00:28:37,129 --> 00:28:35,789
down a couple of things there that I

672
00:28:40,399 --> 00:28:37,139
want to get back to I want to get back

673
00:28:43,190 --> 00:28:40,409
to Josephus and who he was why we might

674
00:28:45,109 --> 00:28:43,200
not take what we think we know about him

675
00:28:46,970 --> 00:28:45,119
and swallow that whole so maybe you can

676
00:28:49,759 --> 00:28:46,980
touch on that but I also want to talk

677
00:28:52,159 --> 00:28:49,769
about Paul because of course Paul is

678
00:28:54,649 --> 00:28:52,169
really the person responsible for the

679
00:28:56,599 --> 00:28:54,659
Christian Church as we know it and but

680
00:28:59,629 --> 00:28:56,609
in particular to get back to this point

681
00:29:03,169 --> 00:28:59,639
that I was raising about your work is

682
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:03,179
who is Paul writing these letters to

683
00:29:08,359 --> 00:29:05,970
because most Christians just kind of

684
00:29:10,220 --> 00:29:08,369
accept that there's all these Christian

685
00:29:12,229 --> 00:29:10,230
churches that are formed and Paul is

686
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:12,239
running around to them and all that but

687
00:29:17,389 --> 00:29:14,850
that's not really the case is it so in

688
00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:17,399
this pre-christian God on a cross

689
00:29:20,599 --> 00:29:20,159
book booklet ebook that I have on my

690
00:29:22,519 --> 00:29:20,609
website

691
00:29:26,479 --> 00:29:22,529
Stella house publishing calm you can get

692
00:29:28,879 --> 00:29:26,489
i'm also discussing the Orphic Dionysian

693
00:29:31,700 --> 00:29:28,889
cult that was extremely popular I

694
00:29:34,729 --> 00:29:31,710
touched on it as it spread with the wine

695
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:34,739
production wine was very popular and

696
00:29:37,820 --> 00:29:36,330
very important all around the

697
00:29:40,149 --> 00:29:37,830
Mediterranean a major part of the

698
00:29:44,210 --> 00:29:40,159
economy as it is today part of this

699
00:29:47,419 --> 00:29:44,220
Orphic Dionysus proselytizing required

700
00:29:49,789 --> 00:29:47,429
and it also tells the legend of Orpheus

701
00:29:51,049 --> 00:29:49,799
it was not a real person but there may

702
00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:51,059
have been I mean there were several

703
00:29:54,830 --> 00:29:53,039
people going around the Mediterranean

704
00:29:58,759 --> 00:29:54,840
proselytizing the cult of Dionysus

705
00:30:02,210 --> 00:29:58,769
but Orpheus is a fictional demigod

706
00:30:05,989 --> 00:30:02,220
character and oddly enough he is

707
00:30:08,930 --> 00:30:05,999
depicted as going around the almost the

708
00:30:13,369 --> 00:30:08,940
same places where Paul is depicted as

709
00:30:17,239 --> 00:30:13,379
going to proselytize the word of Bacchus

710
00:30:18,769 --> 00:30:17,249
or Dionysus so Orpheus is depicted it's

711
00:30:21,470 --> 00:30:18,779
like they just took the story of Orpheus

712
00:30:23,390 --> 00:30:21,480
and reworked it as Paul was there a

713
00:30:25,190 --> 00:30:23,400
historical Paul

714
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:25,200
yes there was somebody who wrote those

715
00:30:31,370 --> 00:30:28,770
letters but the character in the New

716
00:30:33,260 --> 00:30:31,380
Testament is another fictional

717
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:33,270
compilation of characters in this case

718
00:30:40,850 --> 00:30:36,570
there would be a person doing this

719
00:30:44,630 --> 00:30:40,860
proselytizing but he is buried in with

720
00:30:49,220 --> 00:30:44,640
the axe of Orpheus elements out of

721
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:49,230
Josephus possibly the Saul of Josephus

722
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:53,610
in fact and other other in individuals

723
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:55,410
other figures so we have a kind of

724
00:30:59,720 --> 00:30:57,330
compilation in our impression of what

725
00:31:03,010 --> 00:30:59,730
Paul was but and these picked these

726
00:31:07,250 --> 00:31:03,020
letters may have been a kind of standard

727
00:31:09,799 --> 00:31:07,260
proselytizing format formula that was

728
00:31:11,930 --> 00:31:09,809
being taught at mystery schools these

729
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:11,940
places where he goes to in the story

730
00:31:18,890 --> 00:31:16,050
Ephesus and along the Levant in the

731
00:31:23,330 --> 00:31:18,900
Levant and turkey Turkey Asia Minor area

732
00:31:27,410 --> 00:31:23,340
these have Brotherhood seats or schools

733
00:31:29,210 --> 00:31:27,420
there for centuries so basically what

734
00:31:30,830 --> 00:31:29,220
we're seeing when he's addressing the

735
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:30,840
so-called churches is he's addressing

736
00:31:34,490 --> 00:31:32,370
these Brotherhood centers that are

737
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:34,500
already in existence and had been for a

738
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:37,890
long time and those texts are reworked

739
00:31:44,150 --> 00:31:41,250
there's a lot of Gnosticism in them they

740
00:31:47,510 --> 00:31:44,160
are the Pauline epistles are we work to

741
00:31:50,270 --> 00:31:47,520
give it a more dense appearance of

742
00:31:52,090 --> 00:31:50,280
historicity whereas he could be talking

743
00:31:55,669 --> 00:31:52,100
about ideas that were already in place

744
00:31:57,620 --> 00:31:55,679
there's no no need for a historical

745
00:32:00,980 --> 00:31:57,630
founder of what he's talking about

746
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:00,990
there are all these epithets for divine

747
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:04,050
beings that they use like so tear which

748
00:32:10,490 --> 00:32:08,010
means Savior or healer or any of these

749
00:32:13,580 --> 00:32:10,500
ideas any of these epithets that are

750
00:32:16,340 --> 00:32:13,590
that Jesus is called by King Prince Lord

751
00:32:20,299 --> 00:32:16,350
these are all applied to pre-christian

752
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:20,309
gods all over the place so when you have

753
00:32:23,990 --> 00:32:22,530
someone proselytizing and Vokoun a being

754
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:24,000
by these epithets it does not

755
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:26,850
immediately indicate it's Christianity

756
00:32:29,810 --> 00:32:28,530
that they're or that it's a real person

757
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:29,820
they're talking about or that it was a

758
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:32,010
historical founder if he's saying the

759
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:34,170
Lord did this and that in pre-christian

760
00:32:37,010 --> 00:32:35,130
times you would be talking about

761
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:37,020
possibly Yahweh in the Bible you'll be

762
00:32:40,029 --> 00:32:37,490
talking

763
00:32:42,430 --> 00:32:40,039
Zuse you'd be talk about Dionysus every

764
00:32:45,580 --> 00:32:42,440
was called the Lord all over all over

765
00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:45,590
the Levant where the Old Testament draws

766
00:32:50,500 --> 00:32:48,559
its mythology from the gods all over

767
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:50,510
they're called Lord there's Lord Baal

768
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:52,730
and there's just so many of them in fact

769
00:32:58,090 --> 00:32:55,610
if you go back to these Canaanite texts

770
00:33:00,250 --> 00:32:58,100
such as a trois chambre the Ugaritic

771
00:33:02,500 --> 00:33:00,260
texts you'll find a whole pile of what

772
00:33:05,350 --> 00:33:02,510
are considered to be Christian motifs

773
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:05,360
and elements in there there's a God

774
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:07,490
fought God the Father that's the god el

775
00:33:14,169 --> 00:33:10,850
there's a Virgin Mother her name is Anat

776
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:14,179
and there's a son of God who dies and

777
00:33:18,340 --> 00:33:16,130
resurrects from the dead his name is

778
00:33:20,139 --> 00:33:18,350
ball he's a fertility God and then speak

779
00:33:22,510 --> 00:33:20,149
to for a minute because I take two

780
00:33:26,260 --> 00:33:22,520
things out of what you're saying is even

781
00:33:29,139 --> 00:33:26,270
if someone isn't convinced of the Jesus

782
00:33:31,510 --> 00:33:29,149
is a myth I think the very least one has

783
00:33:34,029 --> 00:33:31,520
to take away from this research and they

784
00:33:36,039 --> 00:33:34,039
really need to pick up this book and or

785
00:33:38,380 --> 00:33:36,049
go to the website truth be known and

786
00:33:41,649 --> 00:33:38,390
really look at the extent to which you

787
00:33:43,690 --> 00:33:41,659
document this and the numerous scholars

788
00:33:46,409 --> 00:33:43,700
that are on board with what you've said

789
00:33:48,430 --> 00:33:46,419
and the rigor that you put into

790
00:33:51,850 --> 00:33:48,440
documenting this from numerous sources

791
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:51,860
the the in a very scholarly way but what

792
00:33:55,330 --> 00:33:53,450
I was getting back to is saying you know

793
00:33:58,180 --> 00:33:55,340
the very least I think someone has to

794
00:34:01,930 --> 00:33:58,190
come to is say wow this picture that's

795
00:34:04,169 --> 00:34:01,940
emerging of this period of time when

796
00:34:06,519 --> 00:34:04,179
Christianity was supposed to form is

797
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:06,529
definitely a lot different than I

798
00:34:11,079 --> 00:34:09,050
thought it was because what we walk away

799
00:34:12,879 --> 00:34:11,089
with is it seeped into our culture even

800
00:34:15,820 --> 00:34:12,889
people who are not Christian have this

801
00:34:17,649 --> 00:34:15,830
idea that boom this religion sprung up

802
00:34:20,079 --> 00:34:17,659
organically because there was this

803
00:34:22,419 --> 00:34:20,089
important historical figure that was

804
00:34:24,940 --> 00:34:22,429
unlike anyone who ever came before and

805
00:34:27,790 --> 00:34:24,950
everyone just kind of gravitated around

806
00:34:30,399 --> 00:34:27,800
his ideas in this religion was formed so

807
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:30,409
whether or not you believe in historical

808
00:34:36,220 --> 00:34:33,290
Jesus that myth that I just said I think

809
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:36,230
is blown apart by right what you're just

810
00:34:43,020 --> 00:34:38,810
talking about yeah absolutely that is a

811
00:34:45,490 --> 00:34:43,030
really incomplete picture of the world

812
00:34:47,230 --> 00:34:45,500
that's part of what motivates me because

813
00:34:48,980 --> 00:34:47,240
these ancient cultures have been

814
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:48,990
unfairly derogated

815
00:34:53,899 --> 00:34:52,169
and buried and hidden from sight and to

816
00:34:56,300 --> 00:34:53,909
me what I'm picking up I've always been

817
00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:56,310
a digger it started two years old I was

818
00:34:59,600 --> 00:34:57,690
fascinated with digging in the ground I

819
00:35:02,690 --> 00:34:59,610
saw I actually did archaeological

820
00:35:06,500 --> 00:35:02,700
excavation but this kind of work to me

821
00:35:08,420 --> 00:35:06,510
is also excavation and digging and it's

822
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:08,430
very exciting to find like what I just

823
00:35:14,450 --> 00:35:10,770
told you about the God the Father Virgin

824
00:35:17,780 --> 00:35:14,460
Mother and dying and rising son of God

825
00:35:19,970 --> 00:35:17,790
in the ancient Ugaritic texts it's very

826
00:35:22,250 --> 00:35:19,980
exciting to me to find this information

827
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:22,260
I'm not threatened by it at all I find

828
00:35:27,620 --> 00:35:25,200
it fascinating and it's I think it's

829
00:35:29,900 --> 00:35:27,630
important it restores humanity to these

830
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:29,910
other cultures as well and the only way

831
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:31,650
that you that we could have been so

832
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:34,290
ignorant to believe in that fictional

833
00:35:39,470 --> 00:35:36,810
tale of the great dawning of divine

834
00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:39,480
revelation upon this people you know in

835
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:41,730
the in the dark world all surrounding

836
00:35:46,850 --> 00:35:44,610
them it's just it's so fake the only way

837
00:35:50,420 --> 00:35:46,860
that that could be promulgated is to

838
00:35:53,300 --> 00:35:50,430
force people to be ignorant of the

839
00:35:55,849 --> 00:35:53,310
religion and mythology in pre-christian

840
00:35:58,460 --> 00:35:55,859
times in the appropriate areas you have

841
00:36:00,500 --> 00:35:58,470
to bury that information you have to

842
00:36:02,900 --> 00:36:00,510
drive people away from it you have to

843
00:36:05,810 --> 00:36:02,910
force them not to be interested in it

844
00:36:08,390 --> 00:36:05,820
also physically there was a massive

845
00:36:10,730 --> 00:36:08,400
amount of destruction of these artifacts

846
00:36:11,630 --> 00:36:10,740
to keep this information from from

847
00:36:14,710 --> 00:36:11,640
leaking out

848
00:36:18,380 --> 00:36:14,720
burying up covering up they would build

849
00:36:20,030 --> 00:36:18,390
churches over temples pagan temples so

850
00:36:23,150 --> 00:36:20,040
that no one would ever see the those

851
00:36:25,940 --> 00:36:23,160
tables again and to add into it gets

852
00:36:29,420 --> 00:36:25,950
even worse they would move deranged

853
00:36:31,310 --> 00:36:29,430
crazy monks in there to live on the

854
00:36:34,790 --> 00:36:31,320
temple sites the pagan temple sites and

855
00:36:37,490 --> 00:36:34,800
to you know actually physically abuse

856
00:36:41,180 --> 00:36:37,500
them by defecating on them and so this

857
00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:41,190
was this was how our great religious

858
00:36:47,660 --> 00:36:44,250
traditions that apply to numerous

859
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:47,670
cultures the cultural loss is enormous

860
00:36:53,330 --> 00:36:50,490
and if we take a step back and if we try

861
00:36:56,180 --> 00:36:53,340
and bring it into modern-day times we

862
00:36:58,400 --> 00:36:56,190
have a well-documented history of how

863
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:58,410
that happens and how that you know if

864
00:37:02,180 --> 00:37:00,000
we're going to promote our own interests

865
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:02,190
in our own culture we eventually get to

866
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:02,730
this

867
00:37:07,150 --> 00:37:04,650
hard decision that we make that the best

868
00:37:09,770 --> 00:37:07,160
way to do that is to just steamroll over

869
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:09,780
mm-hmm when else's culture so in a way

870
00:37:15,109 --> 00:37:12,810
in a very cold analytical way of looking

871
00:37:16,970 --> 00:37:15,119
at it the picture you paint makes a lot

872
00:37:20,109 --> 00:37:16,980
of sense in terms of what we know about

873
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:20,119
how we work in how societies advance

874
00:37:25,790 --> 00:37:22,970
let's just pick up on a couple of little

875
00:37:29,210 --> 00:37:25,800
examples of what you're talking about in

876
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:29,220
terms of this obfuscation of history

877
00:37:33,620 --> 00:37:30,810
rewriting of history because you

878
00:37:36,530 --> 00:37:33,630
mentioned Josephus a minute ago

879
00:37:39,620 --> 00:37:36,540
tell us who Josephus is and what we

880
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:39,630
quote unquote know about Josephus is

881
00:37:44,450 --> 00:37:42,330
writing on Jesus well Josephus was a

882
00:37:47,210 --> 00:37:44,460
Jewish historian it was a general

883
00:37:50,240 --> 00:37:47,220
actually first of the first century

884
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:50,250
whose major works were compose

885
00:37:59,500 --> 00:37:56,490
throughout 90 100 AD and in them appears

886
00:38:05,210 --> 00:37:59,510
the infamous testimony 'm Flavian 'm is

887
00:38:08,859 --> 00:38:05,220
a short passage that abruptly interrupts

888
00:38:13,190 --> 00:38:08,869
the surrounding texts and briefly

889
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:13,200
introduces Jesus Christ in a very short

890
00:38:19,310 --> 00:38:17,010
statement of faith essentially that he

891
00:38:20,780 --> 00:38:19,320
was the Messiah and he still has

892
00:38:22,940 --> 00:38:20,790
followers of blah blah blah it's a

893
00:38:24,859 --> 00:38:22,950
everybody knows this is so infamous I

894
00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:24,869
should I say right because when you run

895
00:38:29,150 --> 00:38:26,640
across Christians and this just happened

896
00:38:31,340 --> 00:38:29,160
to be the other day I was I was out in

897
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:31,350
the soccer field with with my daughter

898
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:33,330
and this person comes up and we start

899
00:38:36,050 --> 00:38:34,770
engaging in this conversation a little

900
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:36,060
bit I don't normally get into these

901
00:38:40,370 --> 00:38:38,130
things but a little bit and one of the

902
00:38:43,310 --> 00:38:40,380
first things this person said was

903
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:43,320
Josephus hey we're Christians part of

904
00:38:50,570 --> 00:38:45,410
the reason we know that Jesus is real is

905
00:38:53,510 --> 00:38:50,580
this ancient historical text Josephus he

906
00:38:55,550 --> 00:38:53,520
was a Roman and he even acknowledges

907
00:38:58,640 --> 00:38:55,560
that Jesus lived so for anyone who

908
00:39:01,250 --> 00:38:58,650
doesn't this is a common apologetic kind

909
00:39:03,740 --> 00:39:01,260
of cornerstone of the whole Jesus thing

910
00:39:05,599 --> 00:39:03,750
so I'm sorry please continue right so

911
00:39:08,180 --> 00:39:05,609
I've written pretty extensively on this

912
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:08,190
subject I have I have a page I mean I

913
00:39:14,030 --> 00:39:11,850
have a full draft of a book that on the

914
00:39:15,690 --> 00:39:14,040
Josephus issue alone but it's - it's

915
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:15,700
gonna require a while every time I write

916
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:18,010
you can imagine it takes me forever but

917
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:19,930
because it's heavy-duty stuff I'm

918
00:39:25,109 --> 00:39:23,290
analyzing Greek on my freethought nation

919
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:25,119
if you go through pre thought nation

920
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:27,010
calm if you just look up Josephus you'll

921
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:29,050
find some significant writings on this

922
00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:32,650
issue and first of all there are many

923
00:39:38,190 --> 00:39:35,250
reasons to claim that this is an

924
00:39:39,420 --> 00:39:38,200
interpolation and you know I don't want

925
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:39,430
to go into all those arguments of why

926
00:39:44,609 --> 00:39:41,890
it's an interpolation but I am convinced

927
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:44,619
and I have shown I believe reasonably

928
00:39:50,430 --> 00:39:47,170
and scientifically that the passage is

929
00:39:52,500 --> 00:39:50,440
not original to Josephus that Josephus

930
00:39:55,410 --> 00:39:52,510
had never heard of this individual

931
00:39:57,030 --> 00:39:55,420
scholars for a long time as you point

932
00:39:58,740 --> 00:39:57,040
out one of the back once you make I

933
00:40:00,750 --> 00:39:58,750
think that's very compelling is to say

934
00:40:02,790 --> 00:40:00,760
hundreds and hundreds of years it's kind

935
00:40:05,069 --> 00:40:02,800
of been accepted that this probably

936
00:40:06,660 --> 00:40:05,079
isn't real yeah there's the partial

937
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:06,670
interpolation in Syria there's a whole

938
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:08,530
total interpolation then there are

939
00:40:11,190 --> 00:40:09,970
people who believe the entire thing is

940
00:40:13,770 --> 00:40:11,200
real the people who believe the entire

941
00:40:16,050 --> 00:40:13,780
thing is real are not among the scholars

942
00:40:19,890 --> 00:40:16,060
these days in as far as the majority

943
00:40:22,020 --> 00:40:19,900
goes the the majority of the common folk

944
00:40:23,870 --> 00:40:22,030
so to speak may believe that the entire

945
00:40:26,849 --> 00:40:23,880
thing is real but most scholars today

946
00:40:28,500 --> 00:40:26,859
even devoted Christians will say will

947
00:40:32,190 --> 00:40:28,510
adhere to the partial interpolation

948
00:40:35,730 --> 00:40:32,200
theory but previously there had been for

949
00:40:37,730 --> 00:40:35,740
at least 100 200 years - it was accepted

950
00:40:40,650 --> 00:40:37,740
as a forgery because it had been

951
00:40:43,620 --> 00:40:40,660
thoroughly demonstrated to be such in

952
00:40:45,210 --> 00:40:43,630
toto and by the end of their by the

953
00:40:47,940 --> 00:40:45,220
beginning of the 20th century people

954
00:40:51,150 --> 00:40:47,950
were writing about it as if it had been

955
00:40:53,190 --> 00:40:51,160
proved to be a forgery but as I say in

956
00:40:56,720 --> 00:40:53,200
any event even if we allow that it isn't

957
00:40:58,950 --> 00:40:56,730
it still does not serve as contemporary

958
00:41:00,930 --> 00:40:58,960
evidence of the existence of this

959
00:41:02,730 --> 00:41:00,940
individual okay but but before you go

960
00:41:04,620 --> 00:41:02,740
down that path I want to also put this

961
00:41:05,970 --> 00:41:04,630
in a little bit of context for people

962
00:41:07,859 --> 00:41:05,980
who maybe haven't dug into this as

963
00:41:09,510 --> 00:41:07,869
thoroughly as you have because I can

964
00:41:12,839 --> 00:41:09,520
hear in your explanation you're kind of

965
00:41:15,630 --> 00:41:12,849
leaving room for all this detailed

966
00:41:18,089 --> 00:41:15,640
detailed debate on it which is good but

967
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:18,099
I think the big picture is it probably

968
00:41:23,579 --> 00:41:20,650
ain't real folks and one of the things

969
00:41:25,349 --> 00:41:23,589
that we can use to understand that is to

970
00:41:28,740 --> 00:41:25,359
put it in the context of all the other

971
00:41:29,309 --> 00:41:28,750
stuff we know that was created after the

972
00:41:30,809 --> 00:41:29,319
fact

973
00:41:32,519 --> 00:41:30,819
one of the things I always point folks

974
00:41:35,069 --> 00:41:32,529
to who loved a kind of rattle off

975
00:41:37,439 --> 00:41:35,079
Scripture is you know John eight and

976
00:41:40,140 --> 00:41:37,449
when Jesus says you know that he is who

977
00:41:42,209 --> 00:41:40,150
is without sin cast the first stone and

978
00:41:43,859 --> 00:41:42,219
you know I always tell people look in

979
00:41:44,969 --> 00:41:43,869
your Bible and I think down of the bomb

980
00:41:47,789 --> 00:41:44,979
out of the page you'll see a little

981
00:41:50,039 --> 00:41:47,799
asterisk there and then you'll follow

982
00:41:53,609 --> 00:41:50,049
that asterisk and you'll find that this

983
00:41:55,529 --> 00:41:53,619
like so many things in the Bible when we

984
00:41:58,170 --> 00:41:55,539
really have dug into it have said you

985
00:42:00,029 --> 00:41:58,180
know we're not really so sure that that

986
00:42:01,769 --> 00:42:00,039
was really in there and if you dig

987
00:42:04,019 --> 00:42:01,779
further what they've what they say is

988
00:42:05,519 --> 00:42:04,029
now that really wasn't in there like the

989
00:42:07,079 --> 00:42:05,529
resurrection in the book with the Gospel

990
00:42:08,579 --> 00:42:07,089
of Mark this scholarship I actually

991
00:42:11,309 --> 00:42:08,589
discuss a lot of this scholarship in my

992
00:42:12,989 --> 00:42:11,319
book who was Jesus which does not talk

993
00:42:14,969 --> 00:42:12,999
about the mythology behind it very much

994
00:42:17,579 --> 00:42:14,979
just dresses the Gospels on their face

995
00:42:19,199 --> 00:42:17,589
so that book is quite useful for that

996
00:42:23,099 --> 00:42:19,209
kind of discussion it also talks about

997
00:42:25,609 --> 00:42:23,109
the other supposed witnesses or you know

998
00:42:28,349 --> 00:42:25,619
writers from pagan antiquity like

999
00:42:30,329 --> 00:42:28,359
Suetonius Tacitus Pliny and so forth who

1000
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:30,339
supposedly serve as evidence of the

1001
00:42:36,479 --> 00:42:33,729
existence of Jesus of Nazareth but I

1002
00:42:38,219 --> 00:42:36,489
analyzed all of those claims too and I

1003
00:42:40,979 --> 00:42:38,229
analyzed the claim of whether or not

1004
00:42:42,689 --> 00:42:40,989
there was any place called Nazareth that

1005
00:42:44,189 --> 00:42:42,699
he could have been from yeah talk a

1006
00:42:48,089 --> 00:42:44,199
little bit about that yeah I have

1007
00:42:50,579 --> 00:42:48,099
another article that I wrote called it

1008
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:50,589
appears in our book refuting Bar

1009
00:42:56,099 --> 00:42:53,890
gehrman's attack on us by Frank Sindelar

1010
00:42:57,959 --> 00:42:56,109
so we talked about Nazareth and I go

1011
00:42:59,759 --> 00:42:57,969
through and analyze the usages of the

1012
00:43:02,609 --> 00:42:59,769
word that it's the phrase that is now

1013
00:43:04,439 --> 00:43:02,619
being translated Jesus of Nazareth and I

1014
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:04,449
discover that that phrase really isn't

1015
00:43:09,989 --> 00:43:08,170
is barely in the New Testament most of

1016
00:43:13,279 --> 00:43:09,999
the time they're identifying Jesus as a

1017
00:43:17,930 --> 00:43:13,289
Nazarene which is a pre-christian sect

1018
00:43:20,069 --> 00:43:17,940
interestingly enough of carpenter's hmm

1019
00:43:22,469 --> 00:43:20,079
and there's another there's another

1020
00:43:24,390 --> 00:43:22,479
fascinating motif that I go into detail

1021
00:43:27,509 --> 00:43:24,400
about this whole idea that Jesus was a

1022
00:43:30,359 --> 00:43:27,519
carpenter well unknownst to the masses

1023
00:43:33,150 --> 00:43:30,369
their entire entire carpenter guilds

1024
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:33,160
with the God as a carpenter this idea of

1025
00:43:38,219 --> 00:43:35,410
God as a carpenter or a craftsman God

1026
00:43:40,319 --> 00:43:38,229
himself a god any God there's God's in

1027
00:43:42,059 --> 00:43:40,329
every culture there's one Ugaritic

1028
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:42,069
culture there's one in Egypt these are

1029
00:43:46,950 --> 00:43:43,210
craftsman gods and

1030
00:43:48,329 --> 00:43:46,960
it's taw its Kassar and if i'm

1031
00:43:51,750 --> 00:43:48,339
pronouncing that right in the Ugaritic

1032
00:43:53,339 --> 00:43:51,760
so there's the carpenter god motif is

1033
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:53,349
also pre-christian when you say he's a

1034
00:43:58,109 --> 00:43:55,690
carpenter I analyzed this word Tecton I

1035
00:44:01,950 --> 00:43:58,119
go into practically every detail of the

1036
00:44:04,859 --> 00:44:01,960
story but to get back to Nazareth okay

1037
00:44:06,810 --> 00:44:04,869
right well it turns out in my mind that

1038
00:44:09,810 --> 00:44:06,820
what they're doing here is incorporating

1039
00:44:12,870 --> 00:44:09,820
the Nazarene factor very important group

1040
00:44:15,510 --> 00:44:12,880
of people who are kind of hidden a lot

1041
00:44:19,650 --> 00:44:15,520
of these these mystery schools and sects

1042
00:44:24,740 --> 00:44:19,660
are not overtly named in the gospel but

1043
00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:24,750
they're indicated by their their

1044
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:27,730
landmarks their artifacts that identify

1045
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:29,170
them for example this whole carpenter

1046
00:44:32,430 --> 00:44:31,210
thing in an instant just identifying him

1047
00:44:36,270 --> 00:44:32,440
as a carpenter you've you've

1048
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:36,280
incorporated the Nazarenes most of the

1049
00:44:40,710 --> 00:44:39,130
skills in antiquity would have a god

1050
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:40,720
attached to them there's a smith cult

1051
00:44:45,900 --> 00:44:43,210
and the Greek we know that God the Smith

1052
00:44:48,150 --> 00:44:45,910
God by the name of Hephaestus there's

1053
00:44:50,730 --> 00:44:48,160
the Mason cult

1054
00:44:53,460 --> 00:44:50,740
there's the carpenter cult there's the

1055
00:44:54,900 --> 00:44:53,470
wine cult it goes on and on and on this

1056
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:54,910
is how this is how the ancient world

1057
00:44:58,829 --> 00:44:56,650
looked this is where you're where

1058
00:45:00,990 --> 00:44:58,839
everybody's missing the MIDI or the

1059
00:45:06,349 --> 00:45:01,000
background when they see this just you

1060
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:06,359
know divine Christian revelation concept

1061
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:09,130
and also I think an important point you

1062
00:45:14,970 --> 00:45:12,490
make related to that is you kind of

1063
00:45:18,180 --> 00:45:14,980
dispel another myth and that's that

1064
00:45:21,359 --> 00:45:18,190
they're in this time period there isn't

1065
00:45:24,839 --> 00:45:21,369
a lot of communication between different

1066
00:45:27,089 --> 00:45:24,849
sects and groups about these traditions

1067
00:45:29,099 --> 00:45:27,099
myths whatever you want to call them and

1068
00:45:32,250 --> 00:45:29,109
you really kind of blow that apart and

1069
00:45:34,170 --> 00:45:32,260
there's all sorts of information flow

1070
00:45:36,329 --> 00:45:34,180
going back and forth about this stuff

1071
00:45:38,900 --> 00:45:36,339
people really care about this stuff they

1072
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:38,910
talk about it they share ideas right

1073
00:45:45,660 --> 00:45:40,930
yeah they right sitting around watching

1074
00:45:46,829 --> 00:45:45,670
TV you know if you cut out TV you can

1075
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:46,839
see that there's a whole different world

1076
00:45:51,359 --> 00:45:49,450
out there that you know people are gonna

1077
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:51,369
be fascinated with and it affects them

1078
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:53,410
profoundly and depends on where you're

1079
00:45:59,580 --> 00:45:56,530
living for example the people in north

1080
00:46:02,310 --> 00:45:59,590
Europe are subjected to a significant

1081
00:46:05,130 --> 00:46:02,320
amount of darkness per year and so the

1082
00:46:07,830 --> 00:46:05,140
sudden coldness and the Sun to them is a

1083
00:46:10,830 --> 00:46:07,840
magnificent Savior and healer and they

1084
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:10,840
rejoice every day the Sun is in their

1085
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:13,690
presence that would mean in the morning

1086
00:46:19,020 --> 00:46:16,210
and at the end of the winter especially

1087
00:46:21,750 --> 00:46:19,030
and of course the the winter solstice is

1088
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:21,760
marking the beginning of the rebirth of

1089
00:46:25,740 --> 00:46:24,370
the new Sun a lot of people had their

1090
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:25,750
year's cultures had their year's

1091
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:27,850
beginning at the winter solstice which

1092
00:46:33,090 --> 00:46:29,410
we celebrated as the birth of Jesus

1093
00:46:36,210 --> 00:46:33,100
mm-hmm so what about these practices in

1094
00:46:37,470 --> 00:46:36,220
India and in Egypt making their way over

1095
00:46:39,330 --> 00:46:37,480
I think there's always been the

1096
00:46:42,180 --> 00:46:39,340
implication that gosh there's no way

1097
00:46:46,350 --> 00:46:42,190
that anything from India could have made

1098
00:46:48,210 --> 00:46:46,360
its way into you can only claim that by

1099
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:48,220
utter ignorance of the history of the

1100
00:46:51,620 --> 00:46:48,610
region

1101
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:51,630
for one thing there were already Indians

1102
00:46:58,010 --> 00:46:56,170
the Mitanni in the Turk tricky area the

1103
00:47:00,090 --> 00:46:58,020
Asia Minor and there were other

1104
00:47:02,340 --> 00:47:00,100
indo-europeans the Hittites and the

1105
00:47:03,990 --> 00:47:02,350
Hittites made their way to what is now

1106
00:47:07,350 --> 00:47:04,000
known as Jerusalem they were right in

1107
00:47:09,570 --> 00:47:07,360
the southeastern border of that area and

1108
00:47:12,300 --> 00:47:09,580
in fact they're mentioned in the Bible

1109
00:47:14,190 --> 00:47:12,310
as being the descendants of the

1110
00:47:15,770 --> 00:47:14,200
Israelites the Hittites the amorite s'

1111
00:47:19,020 --> 00:47:15,780
the Jebusites

1112
00:47:21,930 --> 00:47:19,030
and so there's already indo-european

1113
00:47:25,410 --> 00:47:21,940
influence India the conference between

1114
00:47:27,500 --> 00:47:25,420
India and the West's had been going on

1115
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:27,510
for thousands of years as far as

1116
00:47:36,180 --> 00:47:32,290
distances go if you follow the genetic

1117
00:47:40,260 --> 00:47:36,190
paradigm of humanity's exodus out of

1118
00:47:42,420 --> 00:47:40,270
Africa there the main stream right now

1119
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:42,430
is claiming you know at least 70,000

1120
00:47:47,430 --> 00:47:44,530
years ago human beings started migrating

1121
00:47:49,380 --> 00:47:47,440
Out of Africa and they did it to the

1122
00:47:51,300 --> 00:47:49,390
east they did it up along the Nile they

1123
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:51,310
did it through the Sinai desert and

1124
00:47:55,740 --> 00:47:53,050
exactly the region we're talking about

1125
00:47:58,290 --> 00:47:55,750
where all of his stuff Egypt where all

1126
00:48:00,990 --> 00:47:58,300
of this stuff you know percolated for

1127
00:48:03,330 --> 00:48:01,000
tens of thousands of years and in this

1128
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:03,340
case we don't even need humanity per se

1129
00:48:08,100 --> 00:48:05,050
we don't need large numbers of people

1130
00:48:10,020 --> 00:48:08,110
I need a handful of people with some

1131
00:48:12,420 --> 00:48:10,030
ideas and books that

1132
00:48:13,950 --> 00:48:12,430
get transmitted to other people and then

1133
00:48:16,050 --> 00:48:13,960
that gets transmitted right and we don't

1134
00:48:18,420 --> 00:48:16,060
need a large migration of people to have

1135
00:48:21,180 --> 00:48:18,430
these ideas come across right in fact

1136
00:48:22,860 --> 00:48:21,190
what happened with many of these ideas

1137
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:22,870
and again we go back to Dionysus

1138
00:48:27,060 --> 00:48:24,850
significantly because within the night

1139
00:48:31,260 --> 00:48:27,070
out and Dionysus rituals are the death

1140
00:48:34,700 --> 00:48:31,270
and resurrection of the god you know in

1141
00:48:38,810 --> 00:48:34,710
text before the Christian era and the

1142
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:38,820
main we would call this diffusion ism of

1143
00:48:44,070 --> 00:48:41,770
culture it's not always the same it's

1144
00:48:46,170 --> 00:48:44,080
not gonna be the same every time a myth

1145
00:48:47,790 --> 00:48:46,180
hits the shores or mountains of a

1146
00:48:49,380 --> 00:48:47,800
particular area because as I was saying

1147
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:49,390
earlier you depends on where you're

1148
00:48:53,550 --> 00:48:51,850
located the people in northern Europe

1149
00:48:56,580 --> 00:48:53,560
greeting the Sun the people in the

1150
00:48:58,710 --> 00:48:56,590
desert regions of Arabia are not keen

1151
00:49:00,330 --> 00:48:58,720
with the Sun at all they wanted their

1152
00:49:02,850 --> 00:49:00,340
sleeping during the day and they're

1153
00:49:04,710 --> 00:49:02,860
going out at night and so their gods are

1154
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:04,720
more focused at the night sky we have a

1155
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:06,970
lot of lunar and stellar mythology

1156
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:10,330
within Islam and Judaism and there's a

1157
00:49:16,020 --> 00:49:12,970
lot of solar religion in the European

1158
00:49:18,930 --> 00:49:16,030
cultures of course but the main

1159
00:49:19,850 --> 00:49:18,940
diffusion estatic wa t seemed to be the

1160
00:49:23,430 --> 00:49:19,860
Phoenicians

1161
00:49:26,010 --> 00:49:23,440
who were named by that term by the

1162
00:49:28,500 --> 00:49:26,020
Greeks probably about 3000 years ago but

1163
00:49:30,630 --> 00:49:28,510
they existed long before that

1164
00:49:33,180 --> 00:49:30,640
we can call them Canaanites Syrians

1165
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:33,190
bibley UNS from the town of byblos their

1166
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:37,570
city they were in cultural exchange with

1167
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:40,210
Egypt for thousands of years you're

1168
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:43,170
talking maybe seven thousand years ago

1169
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:46,450
doing exchange back and forth with Egypt

1170
00:49:52,670 --> 00:49:48,850
again it's not an extraordinary concept

1171
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:52,680
they're very close together in terms of

1172
00:49:58,470 --> 00:49:56,290
mileage but and then knowing that

1173
00:50:00,180 --> 00:49:58,480
everybody comes from up the Nile pretty

1174
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:00,190
much and you know the Sugoi back and

1175
00:50:05,550 --> 00:50:01,930
forth there it's not that big of a deal

1176
00:50:08,130 --> 00:50:05,560
but there are you know Cedars of Lebanon

1177
00:50:09,690 --> 00:50:08,140
in Egypt that prove this exchange going

1178
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:09,700
on so you have these two cultures

1179
00:50:14,610 --> 00:50:11,890
empowering each other and the

1180
00:50:18,660 --> 00:50:14,620
Phoenicians of course became amazing

1181
00:50:21,630 --> 00:50:18,670
sailors they built incredible ships from

1182
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:21,640
these massive Cedars and they settled in

1183
00:50:25,610 --> 00:50:23,130
the region because

1184
00:50:28,190 --> 00:50:25,620
of the Cedars of course and they became

1185
00:50:31,010 --> 00:50:28,200
extremely wealthy and they were able to

1186
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:31,020
sail all around the Mediterranean and

1187
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:33,450
then eventually they went around the tip

1188
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:35,490
of Africa as well and there are

1189
00:50:39,170 --> 00:50:37,530
indications they made it to Great

1190
00:50:41,180 --> 00:50:39,180
Britain and we're mining the tin mines

1191
00:50:44,300 --> 00:50:41,190
there and then of course there's the

1192
00:50:45,740 --> 00:50:44,310
whole you know America issue which is a

1193
00:50:48,230 --> 00:50:45,750
completely different show and I won't

1194
00:50:50,660 --> 00:50:48,240
get into that right now but in sailing

1195
00:50:52,460 --> 00:50:50,670
around the Mediterranean they exchanged

1196
00:50:54,410 --> 00:50:52,470
culture tremendously and eventually of

1197
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:54,420
course they invented the alphabet which

1198
00:50:59,330 --> 00:50:56,490
you know that what the alphabet did for

1199
00:51:01,580 --> 00:50:59,340
the world is mind-blowing and so you can

1200
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:01,590
see that where the Phoenicians went

1201
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:04,170
where they're writing went they were

1202
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:05,970
then they were able to record other

1203
00:51:12,110 --> 00:51:10,290
people's cultural details and elements

1204
00:51:14,090 --> 00:51:12,120
and they didn't take this along with

1205
00:51:15,410 --> 00:51:14,100
them they brought wine with them they

1206
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:15,420
brought the wine coat they brought the

1207
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:18,450
wine God vine growing this is all part

1208
00:51:21,980 --> 00:51:19,770
of the same thing everything was

1209
00:51:23,780 --> 00:51:21,990
considered to be divine the serpent the

1210
00:51:25,700 --> 00:51:23,790
snake is involved in this because the

1211
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:25,710
serpent is seen to help the soil and

1212
00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:27,570
help and the serpent was seen as a

1213
00:51:31,850 --> 00:51:29,040
symbol of resurrection because it would

1214
00:51:34,340 --> 00:51:31,860
go underground where people were buried

1215
00:51:37,250 --> 00:51:34,350
you know and it would come back up alive

1216
00:51:40,340 --> 00:51:37,260
I saw they used that as a symbol serpent

1217
00:51:42,470 --> 00:51:40,350
is another huge aspect look Jesus is

1218
00:51:45,050 --> 00:51:42,480
compared to the serpent that Moses

1219
00:51:46,940 --> 00:51:45,060
raises up the serpent brazen serpent of

1220
00:51:49,700 --> 00:51:46,950
bronze I'm always a little bit reluctant

1221
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:49,710
when we start saying this is what this

1222
00:51:54,980 --> 00:51:52,170
means and this is why that means this

1223
00:51:56,570 --> 00:51:54,990
but but I'll kind of grant you that but

1224
00:51:58,910 --> 00:51:56,580
we know these things from ancient texts

1225
00:52:01,340 --> 00:51:58,920
so it's not that difficult - well let's

1226
00:52:02,570 --> 00:52:01,350
talk about that for a minute because one

1227
00:52:04,700 --> 00:52:02,580
of the things that we have in

1228
00:52:06,650 --> 00:52:04,710
contemporary research is we can have

1229
00:52:09,290 --> 00:52:06,660
people who have hallucinogenic

1230
00:52:11,780 --> 00:52:09,300
experiences and bring up some of these

1231
00:52:13,460 --> 00:52:11,790
same motifs that seem to come from other

1232
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:13,470
cultures and can't really explain how

1233
00:52:18,350 --> 00:52:16,050
they did that there's a lot more mystery

1234
00:52:20,330 --> 00:52:18,360
to the mystery than I think we know

1235
00:52:22,370 --> 00:52:20,340
about but that's my hunch you know and

1236
00:52:24,050 --> 00:52:22,380
you can have a hunch that no we can

1237
00:52:26,950 --> 00:52:24,060
really explain the mystery by people

1238
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:26,960
just interacting with their natural

1239
00:52:31,070 --> 00:52:29,370
environment and nature and that explains

1240
00:52:32,780 --> 00:52:31,080
the mystery so I don't even want to get

1241
00:52:34,790 --> 00:52:32,790
into that debate but I think there's a

1242
00:52:37,070 --> 00:52:34,800
real debate to be had there what I do

1243
00:52:38,630 --> 00:52:37,080
want to do is address this question

1244
00:52:41,090 --> 00:52:38,640
that I think has to be popping up in

1245
00:52:43,910 --> 00:52:41,100
people's mind and that is how do you

1246
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:43,920
know what you know we didn't really talk

1247
00:52:49,100 --> 00:52:46,650
a lot about your credentials people

1248
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:49,110
might be surprised to see that there

1249
00:52:56,090 --> 00:52:52,770
isn't a PhD after your name but as many

1250
00:52:58,690 --> 00:52:56,100
have said your books probably represent

1251
00:53:01,430 --> 00:52:58,700
at least a couple of pretty darn good

1252
00:53:03,890 --> 00:53:01,440
dissertations there if they were ever

1253
00:53:06,230 --> 00:53:03,900
published in that form so it's people

1254
00:53:09,950 --> 00:53:06,240
need to just go and look at the body of

1255
00:53:12,590 --> 00:53:09,960
the work analyze the scholarship the

1256
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:12,600
rigor that you use and not worry about

1257
00:53:15,890 --> 00:53:15,210
the letters after your name well first

1258
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:15,900
of all I did

1259
00:53:19,550 --> 00:53:18,330
I am alumna excuse me of the American

1260
00:53:21,170 --> 00:53:19,560
School of Classical Studies at Athens

1261
00:53:24,290 --> 00:53:21,180
Greece where I did excavate there and

1262
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:24,300
that is a very good institution and so

1263
00:53:29,720 --> 00:53:27,690
my scholarship has been given no stamp

1264
00:53:33,380 --> 00:53:29,730
of approval you also have to remember

1265
00:53:35,090 --> 00:53:33,390
that great scholars like Joseph Campbell

1266
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:35,100
did not have a PhD he got a master's

1267
00:53:39,020 --> 00:53:36,570
degree but when he went started to go

1268
00:53:41,270 --> 00:53:39,030
into a ph.d program he said I forget

1269
00:53:44,510 --> 00:53:41,280
about it you'll you'll stifle me so I

1270
00:53:46,100 --> 00:53:44,520
know exactly how he feels and so that

1271
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:46,110
you know then letters have the name

1272
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:48,690
there there give the giving away by

1273
00:53:53,630 --> 00:53:50,370
universities and colleges it started out

1274
00:53:58,490 --> 00:53:53,640
as Christian theological seminaries so

1275
00:54:01,700 --> 00:53:58,500
they're not going to get we've touched

1276
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:01,710
on so many topics tell folks if they go

1277
00:54:06,350 --> 00:54:03,930
to your website truth be known and they

1278
00:54:08,420 --> 00:54:06,360
find your books what do you think is a

1279
00:54:10,730 --> 00:54:08,430
good starting point for people what are

1280
00:54:14,090 --> 00:54:10,740
some of the most popular books that you

1281
00:54:16,610 --> 00:54:14,100
have or articles that people might use

1282
00:54:19,550 --> 00:54:16,620
to kind of shoehorn their way into this

1283
00:54:21,290 --> 00:54:19,560
thing well there's a lot of articles for

1284
00:54:24,740 --> 00:54:21,300
free on there that can whet appetites

1285
00:54:26,990 --> 00:54:24,750
for various of my writings otherwise I

1286
00:54:30,980 --> 00:54:27,000
have ebooks I have Kindle I have some

1287
00:54:36,020 --> 00:54:30,990
video I've got several books I think for

1288
00:54:38,030 --> 00:54:36,030
a mild the Christian person who's still

1289
00:54:42,230 --> 00:54:38,040
involved in Christianity they really

1290
00:54:45,710 --> 00:54:42,240
want to know the issues with the Gospels

1291
00:54:48,350 --> 00:54:45,720
themselves and what mainstream scholars

1292
00:54:50,270 --> 00:54:48,360
and theologians and New Testament

1293
00:54:50,690 --> 00:54:50,280
scholars and experts and so forth are

1294
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:50,700
talking

1295
00:54:55,630 --> 00:54:52,890
about in discussing my book who was

1296
00:54:59,359 --> 00:54:55,640
Jesus fingerprints of the Christ is a

1297
00:55:04,310 --> 00:54:59,369
csi-type analysis of this current

1298
00:55:07,250 --> 00:55:04,320
scholarship which finds issues with with

1299
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:07,260
the claim that the New Testament is the

1300
00:55:14,630 --> 00:55:12,210
inerrant Word of God and so I quote it's

1301
00:55:17,870 --> 00:55:14,640
an almost all Christian bibliography in

1302
00:55:20,540 --> 00:55:17,880
that book John Ankerberg Craig Blomberg

1303
00:55:23,990 --> 00:55:20,550
FF Bruce William Lane Craig I cite these

1304
00:55:26,089 --> 00:55:24,000
I cite these individuals as showing the

1305
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:26,099
skip they have some skeptical

1306
00:55:29,690 --> 00:55:27,570
commentaries that people should know

1307
00:55:32,180 --> 00:55:29,700
about so that's a good book to start

1308
00:55:34,210 --> 00:55:32,190
with who is Jesus for people who are

1309
00:55:36,380 --> 00:55:34,220
still involved in Christianity to any

1310
00:55:37,970 --> 00:55:36,390
extent and then of course for people who

1311
00:55:40,910 --> 00:55:37,980
are trying to debate with Christians it

1312
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:40,920
contains a lot of factual research on

1313
00:55:45,740 --> 00:55:43,050
that front then people who are

1314
00:55:49,599 --> 00:55:45,750
interested in the astral mythology

1315
00:55:52,370 --> 00:55:49,609
behind these ideas my book sons of God

1316
00:55:57,370 --> 00:55:52,380
Krishna Buddha and Christ unveiled shows

1317
00:56:00,440 --> 00:55:57,380
the solar nature of many deities and

1318
00:56:02,569 --> 00:56:00,450
legendary heroes and so forth and so

1319
00:56:05,390 --> 00:56:02,579
that one is good the Christ conspiracy

1320
00:56:08,150 --> 00:56:05,400
I'm I'm actually going I'm in the

1321
00:56:09,770 --> 00:56:08,160
process of doing a revision of it but

1322
00:56:10,849 --> 00:56:09,780
that's my most popular book and then

1323
00:56:12,559 --> 00:56:10,859
there's my book called

1324
00:56:14,839 --> 00:56:12,569
the Gospel according to acharya s which

1325
00:56:17,020 --> 00:56:14,849
is a little different approach it's a

1326
00:56:20,300 --> 00:56:17,030
series of what essentially were rants

1327
00:56:22,339 --> 00:56:20,310
from about 20 years ago that where i go

1328
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:22,349
into you know what is prayer

1329
00:56:30,010 --> 00:56:26,490
is belief in God righteous the abuse of

1330
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:30,020
women in the mainstream religions and

1331
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:32,130
many different subjects that are a

1332
00:56:38,030 --> 00:56:34,530
little more spiritual talking about what

1333
00:56:40,579 --> 00:56:38,040
what is God and whether or not we should

1334
00:56:42,740 --> 00:56:40,589
be following an organized religion and

1335
00:56:44,540 --> 00:56:42,750
things like that but that book has been

1336
00:56:46,460 --> 00:56:44,550
very helpful to a lot of people it's

1337
00:56:49,730 --> 00:56:46,470
easy to read it's then kind of just

1338
00:56:52,910 --> 00:56:49,740
helps them get away from what I call the

1339
00:56:54,890 --> 00:56:52,920
organized cults okay anything that's try

1340
00:56:56,990 --> 00:56:54,900
to coerce you into believing in it is a

1341
00:57:00,440 --> 00:56:57,000
cult in my mind if they're if they're

1342
00:57:04,460 --> 00:57:00,450
dangling you know promises of heaven and

1343
00:57:07,460 --> 00:57:04,470
and trying to smack you in the butt with

1344
00:57:09,110 --> 00:57:07,470
with threats of hell it's a cult if

1345
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:09,120
they're telling you that you're going to

1346
00:57:12,170 --> 00:57:10,650
hell if you leave you're going to help

1347
00:57:14,420 --> 00:57:12,180
you don't believe you're going to be

1348
00:57:17,390 --> 00:57:14,430
killed if you're an apostate any of that

1349
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:17,400
rubbish it's a cult one of the things

1350
00:57:21,830 --> 00:57:19,890
that your work is really important in

1351
00:57:24,590 --> 00:57:21,840
doing and it's something we didn't talk

1352
00:57:28,930 --> 00:57:24,600
enough about I think but that's a real

1353
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:28,940
thorough analysis of the power and

1354
00:57:36,670 --> 00:57:32,490
practices of cults of cultish kind of

1355
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:36,680
behavior of power formation power

1356
00:57:42,230 --> 00:57:39,570
manipulation because I think unless we

1357
00:57:45,020 --> 00:57:42,240
really come to grips with that we can't

1358
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:45,030
then separate out what happened to

1359
00:57:49,460 --> 00:57:47,250
because on one hand we have these

1360
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:49,470
traditions and these myths and myth

1361
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:51,690
making but on the other hand we have the

1362
00:57:56,510 --> 00:57:53,970
same characters that we see on the

1363
00:57:56,900 --> 00:57:56,520
landscape today that say hey wait a

1364
00:57:58,850 --> 00:57:56,910
minute

1365
00:58:02,090 --> 00:57:58,860
maybe I can make a buck out of this

1366
00:58:05,210 --> 00:58:02,100
maybe I can control things maybe I can

1367
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:05,220
make my group superior and win out over

1368
00:58:10,100 --> 00:58:07,530
the other group and maybe I can use

1369
00:58:12,980 --> 00:58:10,110
these myths to do it and I think unless

1370
00:58:15,170 --> 00:58:12,990
we thoroughly understand that and at the

1371
00:58:17,450 --> 00:58:15,180
same time thoroughly understand or

1372
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:17,460
appreciate the possibility that there is

1373
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:21,210
some genuine non-biological robot

1374
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:23,850
spiritual experience until all that's on

1375
00:58:26,780 --> 00:58:25,530
the table then we can't really separate

1376
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:26,790
it out either because then we come to

1377
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:28,530
the conclusion that oh the Eskimos would

1378
00:58:32,930 --> 00:58:29,970
have done it better well we don't know

1379
00:58:35,630 --> 00:58:32,940
no but that's not what I'm saying an

1380
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:35,640
individual living on particular in a

1381
00:58:42,020 --> 00:58:39,770
particular area just investigating the

1382
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:42,030
there's no there's no need for

1383
00:58:45,350 --> 00:58:43,770
organization that all I can go up to a

1384
00:58:47,830 --> 00:58:45,360
mountain here you know and have is there

1385
00:58:49,850 --> 00:58:47,840
any kind of nature worshipping

1386
00:58:53,150 --> 00:58:49,860
traditions with it maybe I'll go and

1387
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:53,160
look for that but just just in this way

1388
00:58:57,140 --> 00:58:55,890
though and most of this has to do then

1389
00:58:59,000 --> 00:58:57,150
with observations that cannot be

1390
00:59:01,720 --> 00:58:59,010
controlled by others for example this so

1391
00:59:03,950 --> 00:59:01,730
all the solar mythology this part of

1392
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:03,960
astrobiology I have these Astro theology

1393
00:59:07,100 --> 00:59:05,250
calendars by the way they have some

1394
00:59:09,410 --> 00:59:07,110
really nice pictures and data about this

1395
00:59:10,790 --> 00:59:09,420
kind of information I find them you know

1396
00:59:12,710 --> 00:59:10,800
I'm not asking anybody to believe in any

1397
00:59:14,900 --> 00:59:12,720
of it what I'm just doing is writing a

1398
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:14,910
factual recitation of what has happened

1399
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:17,850
in these places and but they but they're

1400
00:59:21,020 --> 00:59:18,210
it's very

1401
00:59:22,730 --> 00:59:21,030
empowering to know this stuff and also

1402
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:22,740
in the long run when we were talking

1403
00:59:26,420 --> 00:59:24,210
about at the beginning we're talking

1404
00:59:30,859 --> 00:59:26,430
like being in the in the middle between

1405
00:59:33,020 --> 00:59:30,869
extremists on either side and so this

1406
00:59:36,410 --> 00:59:33,030
mythos is amor mythos disposition that

1407
00:59:38,150 --> 00:59:36,420
that I am discussing which looks at many

1408
00:59:40,849 --> 00:59:38,160
you know it looks at supernatural beings

1409
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:40,859
and antiquity as mythical figures not

1410
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:42,450
real people who landed on planet earth

1411
00:59:47,630 --> 00:59:45,450
and did a bunch of magic tricks but this

1412
00:59:50,060 --> 00:59:47,640
is a really a neutral position because

1413
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:50,070
you don't have to believe in it and you

1414
00:59:54,859 --> 00:59:51,930
don't have to dismiss it you don't have

1415
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:54,869
to be a theist or an atheist you can you

1416
00:59:58,790 --> 00:59:56,970
can think you can be a either one you

1417
01:00:00,950 --> 00:59:58,800
can be a theist or an atheist to enjoy

1418
01:00:02,390 --> 01:00:00,960
this information all I'm doing is

1419
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:02,400
collecting religious and mythological

1420
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:05,450
ideas from a far back as we can tell and

1421
01:00:10,250 --> 01:00:07,770
putting them together and showing their

1422
01:00:12,349 --> 01:00:10,260
influences on our thinking today and so

1423
01:00:13,940 --> 01:00:12,359
it doesn't require any kind of belief or

1424
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:13,950
any kind of joining or any kind of

1425
01:00:20,839 --> 01:00:17,730
control well it's an impressive body of

1426
01:00:23,990 --> 01:00:20,849
work I think anyone who goes to truth be

1427
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:24,000
known calm and from their branches on to

1428
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:25,770
any of your work picks up some of your

1429
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:28,290
books hopefully or bounces over to your

1430
01:00:32,599 --> 01:00:30,810
blog on the freethought nation or join

1431
01:00:34,099 --> 01:00:32,609
the forum and I can promise you I'm

1432
01:00:36,829 --> 01:00:34,109
gonna be on that forum after this shows

1433
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:36,839
published I'd love to exchange ideas

1434
01:00:39,380 --> 01:00:38,970
with some of the folks who follow your

1435
01:00:41,660 --> 01:00:39,390
work

1436
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:41,670
but it's been absolutely great having

1437
01:00:46,430 --> 01:00:43,970
you on Acharya thank you so much and

1438
01:00:48,829 --> 01:00:46,440
again thanks for joining me on skeptic

1439
01:00:50,599 --> 01:00:48,839
oh well Alice I really appreciate being

1440
01:00:52,550 --> 01:00:50,609
able to discuss this important

1441
01:00:54,530 --> 01:00:52,560
information with someone who is erudite

1442
01:00:57,589 --> 01:00:54,540
and thoughtful so thank you for having

1443
01:00:59,720 --> 01:00:57,599
me on thanks again to Acharya s for

1444
01:01:01,370 --> 01:00:59,730
joining me today on skeptic oh I'd like

1445
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:01,380
to tee up a couple of questions from

1446
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:03,210
this interview the first would be the

1447
01:01:09,020 --> 01:01:05,490
point I touched on at the beginning how

1448
01:01:11,270 --> 01:01:09,030
much of Christianity is divine spark and

1449
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:11,280
how much is Scientology style

1450
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:14,250
hucksterism and question number two

1451
01:01:21,380 --> 01:01:17,450
which is related that question is is

1452
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:21,390
Christianity special is it different if

1453
01:01:26,839 --> 01:01:24,450
so how is it special how is it different

1454
01:01:29,570 --> 01:01:26,849
from other religions how is it different

1455
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:29,580
from the other religions that acharya s

1456
01:01:34,370 --> 01:01:31,770
talks about that Christianity

1457
01:01:36,770 --> 01:01:34,380
clearly trampled over in order to

1458
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:36,780
promote itself this stature that it's

1459
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:39,690
enjoyed over the last 2000 years so a

1460
01:01:42,860 --> 01:01:41,250
couple of questions there hopefully

1461
01:01:44,750 --> 01:01:42,870
Michael can sort that down into

1462
01:01:47,030 --> 01:01:44,760
something that looks reasonable and post

1463
01:01:48,770 --> 01:01:47,040
that on the skeptical forum by the way

1464
01:01:51,470 --> 01:01:48,780
the skeptical forum is a great place to

1465
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:51,480
continue this conversation this dialog

1466
01:01:56,420 --> 01:01:53,970
to answer these questions you can click

1467
01:01:57,950 --> 01:01:56,430
on over and join us over there of course

1468
01:01:59,870 --> 01:01:57,960
if you want to just leave a comment on

1469
01:02:02,030 --> 01:01:59,880
the website you can do that as well

1470
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:02,040
right there at skeptic Oh calm and

1471
01:02:08,540 --> 01:02:06,810
that's skeptic Oh SK EP tik Oh while

1472
01:02:11,330 --> 01:02:08,550
you're there you can also check out our

1473
01:02:13,730 --> 01:02:11,340
over 200 previous shows and find a

1474
01:02:15,290 --> 01:02:13,740
Facebook and an email link to me well

1475
01:02:17,750 --> 01:02:15,300
that's going to do it for this episode I

1476
01:02:20,090 --> 01:02:17,760
have several interesting episodes coming

1477
01:02:22,550 --> 01:02:20,100
up gonna dive into the UFO topic I have

1478
01:02:24,740 --> 01:02:22,560
I have a handful of really interesting

1479
01:02:27,500 --> 01:02:24,750
interviews that I've done kind of

1480
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:27,510
driving into a very narrow but I think

1481
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:29,970
important little nook and cranny of that

1482
01:02:35,210 --> 01:02:32,370
whole field I hope you'll stay with me